5 Things I’ve Learned About “Love” from Y&R, but Wish I Hadn’t!
I have watched Y&R on and off now for about 20 years, and after 20 years I’ll admit that my memories of plot twists and certain events are rather sketchy. Yet for better or worse — mainly worse– my first recollections of Nicole Reed (aka Nikki Newman) are etched firmly in my mind.
My very first memory of Nikki was watching her weep mournfully before Jack, her then husband, about her addiction to alcohol. I remember thinking, “am I supposed to feel sorry for this character?” If I was, I didn’t! I felt that Jack was much too good for her and could not understand why she was so completely obsessed with a man (one Victor Newman) who did not seem to genuinely love or respect her. But what did I know about “love” at 15? Clearly nothing! According to the Y&R “Bible,” Victor and Nikki are the loves of each other’s lives. They are soulmates; the representation, par excellence, of “real love” in Soapdom.
Sadly, after finding myself enjoying Nikki Newman as a character for the first time in almost 20 years — due to her honest and refreshing relationship with Paul Williams — this past week Y&R has, once again, inveterated why I generally dislike Nikki and loath her relationship with Victor.
On the eve of Nikki’s marriage to a kind, faithful, honest, strong, patient, loving and attractive man — a man that has brought out the best in her — Nikki has decided to throw her hat back into Victor’s ring. For some reason, unbeknownst to me, Victor Newman, a rich, powerful, manipulative, emotionally abusive, narcissistic, vindictive, cruel and disrespectful man, continues to be held up by Y&R’s head writers as the kind of man we women should want and desire. Really writers? Is this what you want to convey to your viewers?
Based on Nikki and Victor’s relationship over the last 20 years, this is what the writers of Y&R have taught me about love:
1) Real love is based purely on a person’s emotions. How a women is treated by a man bears no permanent impact on how she should feel about him. Accordingly, he can treat her with utter contempt, but she still loves him. And such feelings justify her making a fool of herself as she continually pursues this sadistic man regardless of what her brain tells her. The 25 year roller coaster of emotional abuse and turmoil simply means you are “star-crossed lovers,” fulfilling a fatalistic “calling” over which the pair have no control.
2) Real love is not meant to bring out the best qualities of character in a person. Rather a women who is truly “in love” becomes manipulative, desperate, pathetic, weak-willed and needy. In fact, poor character is a marker of the depth of her affections for said man. And in turn, this overly-emotional, vindictive, insecure, hypocritical, manipulative, petty, snide, and selfish women is held up as the kind of women who is “interesting,” “loveable,” and “strong.”
3) Real love is essentially an obsession. As such, if a women has had a child with a man he becomes the “love of her life,” regardless of how many children he reproduces with other women. And she will pass over a “good man” for her true obsession, I mean, love. As for the man in this equation, he is permanently torn between these women, loving them all. Consequently, the children become a tool to manipulate this man, especially if he is straying from the relationship.
4) Real love permits a women to be an interloper in every new relationship the “love of your life” might enter. The home he now shares with his new partner, will still be your home and he will forever be your husband. Moreover, your adult children will always be his legitimate children and family. His other children should always come second, regardless of how much like their father they are!
5) Real love is not about respect or friendship. Instead, a man who treats a women with respect can only be that women’s “best friend forever.” For a man to truly be “in love” he must not respect the women he is with and she must not be his partner or equal. His “true love” is a women who is sexually desirable, but lacking substance. She is a women he can manipulate for “her best interests” and “his own reasons.” Furthermore traditional views of marriage and love, that is, marriage based on partnership, friendship, respect, fidelity, and honesty, are merely notions of nostalgia, and as such, are “boring” and “asexual.”
To be sure, these 5 points merely scratch the surface, but it scares me to think how many women — and young women, at that — are getting their cues about love from this set of values. There is something truly misogynistic occurring in soap writing: a deep hatred of women. I suppose this was to be expected 30 years ago. But nothing has really changed, has it? In fact, I propose that it’s gotten worse!
I have to wonder if the reason for this is that soaps, for the most part, continue to be written by men (gay or straight) for straight women. Their musings, as men, of what a women should be becomes the dominant image presented to a mostly female viewing audience. While there are female writers and producers, these women are still in the minority; that is, this industry is still a “man’s world.” Maria Arena Bell may be the head writer and co-executive producer of Y&R, but it would seem to me that she is not writing for women. Rather she is simply putting forward the kind of poppycock the men she is surrounded by will approve. And for the first time in soap history, women are rejecting this male perspective, whether it is written by a women or a man.
Currently, there are numerous shows in primetime that portray women as strong, capable, smart, accomplished, ambitious, sexually aware, attractive, stable and interesting. These are the characters to whom I relate and enjoy watching. In front of these female characters, Nicole Reed Newman Abbot Newman Chow Newman is defunct! I barely like her, let alone want to be like her. Some may argue that because this is just a story, it is not a corollary to real life. But why tell stories at all if this is the case? Stories provide us with a vision of who we are, what we believe, and who we want to be. Consequently, is it any wonder that enlightened female viewers are turning off soaps in droves? Why would we watch a television show that fails to represent us? The simple answer is: we shouldn’t and we won’t!
39 Responses to “5 Things I’ve Learned About “Love” from Y&R, but Wish I Hadn’t!”
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Ali, this post is a thing of beauty. You brought up so many great points. Y&R really is presenting a warped definition of love to it's mostly female viewers. Lately, I frequently find myself asking, why am I watching this show. I guess I'll talk about it on Sunday, LOL. Great job on your first post for DT! More!
Ali, girl, you betta preach on!
Cosign to the 10th power Ali, you rock!
I'm so happy you wrote on this subject, and bowled over by the fact you wrote it so well. By the message boards I read, I think there are so many women who feel the same way.
I often wonder how much of this misogyny on screen is fueled by the competing interests of the two large fanbases; gay men and straight older women.
My observations have been that while the gay men and very young women cheer the histrionic, faux-Diva driven antics of conniving love partners like Billy and Chloe, in contrast, older women cheer on screen intimacy, women standing up for themselves and love stories rooted in people who seem to have genuine respect and love for one another as demonstrated in Lane 1.0 and Lilliam.
Despite the popularity of these couples who promote respect, intimacy and affection, the gay men who dominate the punditry of this industry, appear to work overtime to classify these relationships as boring and not "soapy" enough.
It's absolutely frightening when you see young women who cling to "Billy must love Chloe" deep down, and gay men who say they have "smoking chemistry", when Billy looks at Chloe with violent intent… but the woman he treats with care, love and respect "Lily", is considered the "boring" love story.
This is why soaps will end with my generation. I simply would not risk my future children's values being warped by an industry that takes pleasure in peddling disrespect and misogyny as true love. Hard as working mothers might try, I don't like the odds of 5 weekly hours of misogynistic impressions vs 2 hours of quality time on the weekends.
Ali rock on!
Otter, great post!
It's very refreshing to find a group of fans, women no less, that have had it with this trifling mess of a show.
I too have often wondered how in this day and age, when we have so many positive female influences, these writers feel the need to present the worst kinds of images for this young generation to follow.
You made my day with this post.
"This is why soaps will end with my generation. I simply would not risk my future children's values being warped by an industry that takes pleasure in peddling disrespect and misogyny as true love. Hard as working mothers might try, I don't like the odds of 5 weekly hours of misogynistic impressions vs 2 hours of quality time on the weekends."
Moni, word! ICAM
This is why I flove this blog….I'll definitely be present this Sunday for the blogtalk. See ya!
Bravo Otter…this type of writing certainly does insult it's target audience…women..some mindless twit comes in and obviously has their head in the sand about what is desired for entertainment by women!! You would have thought that Y&R would have gotten the clue about Hogan Sheffer before he was actually hired, he has ruined any show he has written for, get a clue people!!
Moni — I just want to say that your commentary on my commentary is right on the money!
And, deep down, I hope you are right and that soaps — unless they change mightily — will die with our generation. They are a rusted, old junk-bucket and need to be put out to the junk yard. Anyone who thinks that Bloe (Billy and Chloe) are deeply in love need to give their head a serious shake. Any man that spews that kind of vitriol at a women is not secretly hiding his feelings for her. That is just moronic! Furthermore, after Nikki made her declaration to Victor, the next day he said to Ashley — Nikki came her and said her little speech and I felt so thankful for "what we have!" I'm not enjoying Victor and Ashley, but his comment to her about Nikki speaks volumes!!!
As women we need to help each other see what is real and true and right! What Y&R is dishing, isn't!
Bravo ladies for being so intelligent and ballsy! I'll see you all at Sunday's blogchat!
Great post Otter! I commented yesterday, but it didn’t make it to Word press, (LMAO)so, here I go again.
It’s sad, because Women are the main ones praising these sorry excuse for men. (And I use the word lightly) I have seen male posters who have stated, that they don’t understand why these woman put up with this crap.
Why is that some women can watch a man put a woman through HELL, show her a complete lack of respect, trust, faith and honesty and yet STILL! want her to be with him???
I understand what you are saying but every woman is not strong ! If that were the case the world wouldn’t have half of the problems that it does. Please do not tell me that there is not one woman in this world who has ever stayed with an abusive man because she thought that she could change him. Every woman on soaps cannot be Lily or there would be no DRAMA ! Drama must stem from Conflict. Conflict comes from clashing characters like Nikki and Victor. This is the nature of soaps ! If there are no Chloe’s and Phyllis’s than it would not be a soap ! It would be Barney and Friends. And there would be none to stand in the way of the sweet little Lily’s and the heroic, dashing Cane’s.
Sarah, you are absolutely right! I think the problem is the trend of who’s winning all the time on this soap.
I have no problem with troubled characters and redemption, I think that is the basic premise of soaps. The problem, is these women don’t take us on a journey that shows they are interested in gaining any kind of respect.
Carly Corinthos Jax is one of the best written female leads on any soap. For all the vitriol he gets, Bob Guza is a man who does character development, strong women and love stories exceptionally well. Carly is troubled, full of pathos, and terrible qualities, but she has enough fight and self respect to still have viewers relate to or even root for her.
In my opinion while Phyllis has done this under other writers, Chloe has not, I don’t just want bad girls for the sake of mixing it up. Their characters are not even somewhat likeable to me anymore.
Good points and examples. So I guess you’re saying that the character is not currently written in such of a way that audience can symphatize with Nikki. I think the writers have to make clear to the fans that the reason why Nikki keeps going back to someone abusive like Victor may be because of her troubled childhood. The writers were better about this in the 90s and early 2000s but now, not so much. It was constantly explained that Nikki was Victor’s diamond in the rough etc., so that the fans understood that Nikki was not just a complete irrational idiot. Nikki was (and is) an insecure woman trying to stake her claim in a sophisticated world that she was not raised in but rather brought into by TGVN. Therefore, Nikki is dependent on Victor for her self-esteem.
Sarah,
I agree that not every female character on a soap can be a cookie-cutter replica of sunshine and light — lol — but I do think that Nikki represents, on some level, almost all the female characters on Y&R. Lily, Mac, Woe is Me (Kate/Chloe), Phyllis, Sharon, Amber, Ashley, and even Vikki, all have been reduced to “weak,” “mindless,” “desperate,” and “FOOLISH” women who are “nothing” without a man — any man. Nikki is simply the total embodiment of these qualities.
What troubles me is that the writers, for the sake of “drama,” present these kinds of women as the ideal. And I fear that young women, particularly, look at women like selfish/fake Woe and desperate Phyllis, and needy Sharon, and clueless Lily, and silly Amber, etc., as a template for what it means to be a “real” women. These are values I reject outright!
I could handle characters like Woe, Gloria, and old-Phyllis if there were smart, sophisticated, wise and kind women also being portrayed. But, right now, I can’t think of female character on Y&R is who a “quality” women. Well, maybe Lauren, but we NEVER see her. Lol!
Truly, I’m not trying to “beat up” on Nikki, However, even Eliza Doolittle at the end of Pygmalion (My Fair Lady) stood up to Mr. Higgins as her own women. She no longer needed him for her “self-esteem!”
Well stated. Don’t get me on Victoria, she used to be FIERCE back in the day. And why have Nina and Lily forgiven the men who betrayed them so quickly ?
Everything that was said in this post describes the recipe for soaps! I can’t remember when soaps were never degrading towards women. It has always been that way and will continue. If it wasn’t men degrading them in relationships, it was something else in the workforce, etc. A lot of women refuse to watch soaps because of that very reason, they see it as an insult seeing women in those extremes. For me, Soaps have always been “what not to do”. I have never ONCE said I looked up to or aspired to be any of these women. If parents are allowing their children to actually look up to these women, there is something wrong with them. Soaps are the epitome of disrespect towards women. Parents should be teaching their kids, not shows!
Nikki’s relationship with Victor is a staple on Y&R. Yes i agree that it doesn’t make sense “logically” that Nikki would dump Paul for Victor. But let’s get real here. What would you rather see? Paul and Nikki holding hands all the time? Or Victor and Nikki going toe to toe? Which one brings the entertainment? There is no way I believe that what Nikki and Victor have is true love, based on everything the couple has gone through for the last 30 years. If you want to get really “logical” none of the couples are the paradigm of true love on this show. When I write a statement saying that “Victor loves Nikki”, I am not saying my definintion of love, but the shows definition of love. My definition is way different. All the relationships on the show are abusive in their own ways, but as a viewer, I try to throw out the “logical” part of me and take it for what it is, entertainment. I get passionate about these couples too on message boards because it’s fun to argue, but I remember that this is fiction. That goes for anything you watch. Yes it’s true the writers in soaps make up stories to relate to certain situations that occur in real life, but in no way, do I look at it seriously! No one should do that! You can make the same argument for almost any show or any movie.
EX: Disney movies all have weak depictions of women. Young princesses being rescued by men in order to live, but, those princesses are well known throughout the world. And I still have my Disney movies and go to Disneyland! The parents job is to make aware that it’s just fiction and entertainment.
If I was really upset with the way the women were being treated, I wouldn’t watch the show, or boycott Disney princess films. But I watch it for entertainment. Even though this blog was written in offense to the disrespect towards women on Y&R, it is stated in the first paragraph, that the writer has been watching on and off for 20 years. That’s a long time. If you felt so strongly about these views…why have you been watching for 20 years?
Ivy, that’s a great “ideal” about parents, but we both know that’s not how it works in the real world. My mom would never have chosen for me to watch soaps as a young girl; she didn’t watch them herself, but my babysitter did. I was basically forced into it, and then acquired a taste for them.
A lot of working women leave the care of their children to women (whether family members or not), who are less educated, have different values or different socioeconomic status then they do. You might be surprised at the number of women who think Chris Brown was justified for hitting Rihanna because she “popped off at the mouth,” and how many of these differences are explained by differences in education, and socioeconomic status.
It wouldn’t be my choice for my child to watch soaps, but the reality is that many 12-17 year old girls(and younger) still get their first exposure to love and romance from soaps. In fact, all major networks and advertisers track this demographic, and covet them.
This is why just as PBS made a bold decision to help prepare poor children for kindergarten with shows like Sesame street, it would be great if other shows that knowingly target children, thought about the values they project when they have significant numbers of children watching them.
What PBS did was address the world as it is, and not as it should be and in doing so forever changed, or at least mitigated the gap between poor and wealthy children in their preparedness for elementary school.
I wouldn’t want any male or female child of mine thinking a man loves them deep down, when he abuses them. There are still compelling stories to tell without using weak women as a plot device ad nauseum.
I understand that shows are heavily influenced on ages 12-17. That’s why we get parents hating Disney for Lindsey Lohan driving drunk because she is supposed to be a role model for young girls, not the mother. Which makes 0 sense. It’s not the soaps responsibility to show the younger audience responsible relationships. They are the writers, it’s your choice to watch or not.
Another example, is The Simpsons. Parents got so mad at the Simpsons for writing Bart using swear words. The Simpsons is an adult show, why would you be allowing your child to watch the Simpsons when it says on screen adult. I understand how you could watch it because it’s so popular, but you can’t blame the writers for the parents irresponsible behavior. Just like you can’t blame the writers for writing dysfunctional relationship.
I watched soaps when i was in high school but I never looked up to these women or these relationships as a reality.
People can’t blame the writers for spewing out dysfunctional relationships. That’s what a soap is about. Soap= lies, deception, sex, love, murder, rape, etc. Everything that could go wrong in relationships.
Ivyserpent,
Moni has addressed your points extremely well above. So, there’s no need for me to rehash.
I must say though that I wonder if you have missed my deeper point. I’m not bitching for the sake of bitching. My point is that stories/narratives have power — power to shape our minds, values and desires, sometimes, without us recognizing what’s happening. It’s NEVER just “entertainment.” For all of us who watch or have watched soaps, our minds have been shaped by Hollywood to think a certain way about relationships — particularly, that men who treat women with disrespect are the ideal type of men women should want. As much as we might try, we cannot escape this formation because we have watched (and come to believe) what Hollywood has fed us for so long.
BUT, I say, this is a lie! A destructive, unhealthy, and unhappy relationship is NOT “entertaining.” The minute we call it such we demonstrate that we have been co-opted by the “values” that have been presented to us by certain tv shows (e.g., soap operas).
And if I can convince one young women (or any women, really) that bickering, abuse, insults, and meaningless sex, is NOT “entertainment,” that, to me is victory and the reason why I wrote this blog!
Preach it girl!
Otter, take a bow!
Narratives do have power – to produce catharsis, or poison. The visceral repulsion we feel when we see the fruits of hate manifest themselves in this show, forces many to just turn it off.
What this executive team does not realize, is that the future is here, even if they choose not to acknowledge it. Y&R’s journey into oblivion has begun.
I get what Ivyserpant and Otter are saying. But honestly, at the end of the day, should we really expect wholesome VALUES from soaps ? Not to say that any form of media should celebrate negative behavior but this is the same genre that has had 30 something million viewers watching Laura marry her rapist rather than 30 million viewers turning away. I agree with Ivy. This kind of drama is what soaps are built on. Not to say that it should be. BUT going back to Niki and Victor, characters like Katherine and Paul have called out Niktor for what it is, the show hasn’t completely tried to sell Nikki/Victor w/o bringing up the bad stuff in the past. Yet, everyone wants Lily to forgive Cane no matter how much he lies and they want Lily to be with Billy and accept all of his flaws. You can’t call out one and not the other.
If we’re going to talk about meaningless sex what about Lily having casual sex with Billy in his office ? This is the same girl who had an STD and had been raped mind you. Then there is Tyra. The site’s podcast blasted Y and R for not realizing that Eva the Diva can bring in new, younger viewers that Madison Avenue would be happy about. Yet, would you want to see Eva’s younger, gulliable fans tuning in to see her character have not only a meaningless casual sex romp with a married man in a resturant of all places but also a casual sex romp on a sofa with her kind of not really nephew ? And doesn’t everyone want Lily to forgive Cane no matter how much her lies to her ? That is emotional abuse my friends. Look, at the end of the day we are watching a soap. Soaps are known for being less than wholesome. Yes, media is very, very influential but what on earth do you expect from a soap ? This is the same genre that had Laura marry her rapist and 30 million people decided to tune in. I’m not saying that all this is right, I am just saying that this is to be expected from the “love in the afternoon genre.” And when they say love, they don’t mean love is patient, love is kind… they mean sex, point blank. Let’s be real. I agree with Ivy 100%. Now, back to Niktor. The show has shown the good and the bad through flashbacks. Also, Katherine and Paul have called Nikki and Victor out on their foolishness. Paul even went on to say that Niktor was a toxic realtionship. All of the madness between Victor and Nikki has not be swept under the rug, especially with the little nod to the morgue comment Victor made after Sabrina died. BTW, everyone is mad Nikki for not marrying Paul because he is a good guy blah blah but didn’t Paul try to rape Cricket or someting ? Just saying.
Okay, I repeated myself but u get the point. =)
Sarah,
First, soaps ARE built on dysfunctional relationships — no doubt! But in the past, there seems to have been romantic and healthy pairings that could be shown as a counterpoint to what Bloe and Nictor represent. I can’t think of one relationship on Y&R right now that is even relatively healthy, except Kurphy! Lol! And as much as I love Mac, she’s been sleeping with a married man! Can’t one relationship be entered into honestly and openly? Where the chivalry? Where’s the romance? Where’s the love? With this writing team, I can’t find it! And I can’t help but wonder if this durth is the product of male writers/producers writing/producing for a female viewing audience. We are being shown their imagined versions of what a male-female relationship should look like. Quite frankly, it’s damaging to women! And what makes this situation even worse is that the buck STOPS with a women: MAB! She’s ultimately responsible!
Second, I exempt none of the pairings on Y&R from my critique — including Lilliam — all have fallen short to varying degrees. Nikki and Victor are simply the prototype for the rest!
I agree that there should be good relationships to counteract the bad but as I stated before I like that Paul went hard on Nikki for her poo which serves the same purpose to a lesser extent. I also liked when Katherine told Chloe to have some self-respect. BTW, Kay shows us all how it is done. Kurphy is the best romance on the show !
Hey Sarah, thanks for listening to the podcast! I actually think you proved our point, no woman is a role model including Tyra and Lily.
I disagree about the meaningless sex comment. Billy gave her a good panty dropping speech before she dropped trou. LOL
Sure ! Let us not forget when Collen went to Daniel’s apt and flung her panties in the air like a flying saucer. Nasty ! That was just wrong in so many ways. =0
Hey again Sarah,
Nikki and Woe being called out on their foolishness is cold comfort, but I take your point that the writers, on some level, try to offer the side that makes sense! Lol! But the fact that they do this almost makes it worse!!! They know Nictor and Bloe are horrible examples of relationships, yet they ship them anyway! Sigh…
And just to make one more point — love IS patient, kind, not envious, hopeful and unending! But more to the point that I’m making — this kind of love, to me, IS fascinating and entertaining!
I recently re-watched The Princess Bride. I know soooooooo many guys (including my husband) who absolutely love that movie. I think men actually want to be like Wesley NOT Victor. Moreover, I think, they want us to expect that kind of character from them: faithfulness, passion, honesty, strength, fierceness, humour, perserverance, etc.
In light of this type of love, Cane’s “love” for Lily leaves A LOT to be desired.
Moni — I just read your last comment!
You PREACH girl!!!! Woohoo!!!!!
No, I agree. I would like to see TRUE love on my screen as well. What u said about the movie Princess Bride is interesting because while everyone is crying and carrying on about the sorry state of women in daytime, what about the men ? Victor is upheld as a paragon of manhood, and if we’re going to talk about the influence of the media, what has Victor alone taught us about being a man ? I know u touched upon this point briefly in the podcast, but you were all more concerned w/ the portrayl of women which I can understand because this genre was created by and large 4 women.
BTW, I miss the recaps guys ! They were 2 good 4 their own good ! lol
We’re still doing the recaps but they’re weekly now instead of daily so stay tuned.
Thanks, I was wondering about the recaps!!! You guys always do so awesome! most of the time they’re better than the actual show!
Sarah,
the portrayal of men in soaps is going to be my next blog!!!!! Lmao!!!!
When Desperate Housewives first aired, what happened in the first episode. Gaby, (Eva longoria Parker) was having an affair with the gardener. That alone! Intrigued viewers to watch the show, and it’s one of the most watched evening soaps on abc. Women wanted to see Gaby have an affair, lie to her husband, cheat,disgrace her vows, and most importantly get caught and yelled at by her husband. Carlos and Gaby have a dysfunctional relationship, they both have cheated on each other, and hurt each other, and call each other names. With all that drama it makes it entertaining. 30 million viewers each week are entertained by that.
Like Chloe and Billy, they have the same banter between them and it’s funny to watch them go at it, because they throw in jokes along with the arguing. You can’t have just sincere couples on the show, there would be no soap. The arguing equals the passion between the characters. It’s not that surprising when you think about it,soaps and prime time shows use this recipe all the time. If you don’t like this type i don’t understand why you watch soaps in general? That’s really all it’s based on. And if there is one honest relationship, you know it doesn’t last. Something goes wrong and the abuse begins! Soaps aren’t built on honest and loving relationships. That doesn’t define a soap. I asked a random guy today, what’s the first thing that came to mind when he heard “Soap”. He said Mistress. Not loving relationships with honesty. It’s boring to watch a couple be in love, have logical conversations, honesty, and work on their problems. That doesn’t sound like a soap to me? When I think of “soaps and relationships” I think people cheating on each other, hurt, pain, lies, disgrace, lack of honesty, and throw in some love, but I know it doesn’t last.
People enjoy the “banter” type, because it’s not the same, “I fell in love with you when i first saw you” type. It’s fine to have that type, but it can get boring because it’s so predictable. People want the unpredictable, and seeing Billy who has claimed to hate Chloe, couldn’t stand to be around her, actually eat his words and realize that he cared and is getting burned because she moved on with chance. It will be interesting for me to watch, because I saw nothing but hate in that relationship from Billy so i am curious how they would write that if they go in that direction.
The problem that I saw with Y&R, was that they made all the women weak at the same time. I don’t mind weak women, because that is partly what a soap is about. However, it seemed to show the women chasing after all the men, that seemed to not want them. They weren’t showing the women working, so there was no independence coming from them at all. There has to be a balance between the weak and the strong. They failed to deliver that in those months.
Maybe some of you are the old fashioned “I fell madly in love at first sight”. I don’t know why you are watching soaps, because all the relationships are never healthy. What relationship is healthy on soaps? All of them are dysfunctional or become dysfunctional. Your paragraph reminds me of the paper I wrote in my Sociology class in college when i broke down every show on tv and said how it was degrading towards women. But, I found myself still watching those same shows that I destroyed! Even though it’s dysfunctional you have been watching for over 20 years and blogging about it. And if Chilly gets back together, you will probably watch it and write another blog. It’s working for you on some level, for you to keep watching it.
Ivy Serpent,
The more you write, the more you demonstrate and underscore my point!
So, thank you!
I understand your point. I was just arguing that it doesn’t matter if the soap is damaging towards women, or the soaps depiction of relationships is “unhealthy”, because we are going to keep watching it regardless. You proved it with the opening sentence of you watching the soap for over 20 years and continuing.
“If I can convince one young women (or any women, really) that bickering, abuse, insults, and meaningless sex, is NOT “entertainment,” that, to me is victory and the reason why I wrote this blog!”
This is what shows and movies are based on. It’s entertainment. It must be for you too or you wouldn’t watch it.
Ivyserpent — Once again, thank you for continuing to illustrate my point!!! You’re doing it very well!
Your persistence merely confirms that you do not understand why your sense of “entertainment” demonstrates my argument perfectly. I suggest you go back and carefully reread what I’ve written in the body of my text and in all my comments that followed.
And btw, I don’t watch Y&R anymore. I haven’t in a while. Because I’ve made many friends online over the last couple of years, I do read the recaps and chat with my friends. But for me, the show is just a platform for the building of a community.
Thus, your alluding to my “hypocrisy” is unfounded.
Reading recaps is watching the show. It’s not visual, but you are in a sense watching it, because you are up to date with the current events. You wrote this blog on a website that talks about Y&R. So you haven’t in a sense stopped watching it, because, you continue to write in a community that talks about Y&R.
The reason I am so persistent, is because I am animator, and I see people who write onto blogs and say how much they hate the show I am working on. They enter community groups like this one, and complain about jokes, etc. How it’s damaging to their children, yada yada yada. I question why they continue watching or reading the recaps if they dislike it so much? Shouldn’t you stop reading recaps, entering fansites, blog talk radio, if you are so disgusted with the show? Even if you have friends online, you took the time to read the recaps and write a review. As an animator, that means you still like the show enough to write this. People that don’t care about my show, don’t analyze like you did. That’s all i was saying really.
^^^If reading a recap equates watching the show, Y&R’s ratings wouldn’t be an abysmal 3.5.
Your argument is asinine!
Clearly, you like to argue for the sake of argument. I don’t – it’s non-productive.
So, I rest my case.
Misunderstood what i was saying. For example, if I said, I stopped watching Desperate Housewives because i hated the treatment of women on the show. HOWEVER, I am still going to continue reading the recaps and discuss it with people online about current story lines. That is still watching the show. You are up to date with current story lines. If you REALLY stopped watching the show, you wouldn’t read the recaps, write in depth blogs like this one, and discuss the show’s story lines/characters on fansites like this one. The show wouldn’t be of interest to you anymore. I know people that hate soaps because of the reasons you stated above. I don’t see them reading recaps and discussing story lines. I don’t blog about shows that I don’t watch anymore, nor read re-caps. I only blog about shows that entertain me. That’s all I was saying.